PopHorror Let's Get Scared
Recently, we got the opportunity to speak with Charles Dorfman, director of Fantastic Fest’s new film, Barbarians! Read our interview below!
PopHorror: This being your directorial feature debut, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced?
Charles Dorfman: Making my first film was probably the biggest challenge. Just to work with the crew was great, but essentially, everyday you’re just solving hundreds of problems. So, it’s hard. I’ve been asked that question a few times. There’s no one thing that really sticks out above it all. It’s not an easy thing to try and make something, to try to tell a story in a creative way with authenticity, under such pressure.
PopHorror: Understandable. What were some of your biggest inspirations for the film and your process and making it?
Charles Dorfman: So originally, I wrote the film to be in as an actor. And that was the sort of process of it. And then over time, I was thinking a lot about what it meant to be an adult, what it means to be an adult man in today’s world, and why that matters. So, I was reading a lot, thinking a lot about that, watching a lot of films. And then, the process was: in writing, I acted out the parts. So, I wouldn’t say I’m an actor/writer, but I can act so well up to a point. So, that was my process, as weird as that was, in my kitchen. (Chuckles) So that was basically the process of acting out everything and then writing it down. That was that process, and then visualizing a storyboard and pretty much everything. It was always a constant process of reiteration. You’re just going over it again and again in your mind. And I always had the audience in mind. So yeah, I’m just happy that it is out there, happy that we’re going to be able to share with audiences and festivals.
PopHorror: Yeah, I think it’s gonna intrigue people. So, when you did mention that you did write this with a part in mind for yourself, which which part was it, if you don’t mind me asking? Was it the Adam part?
Charles Dorfman: No, it was Lucas, actually.
PopHorror: Oh, Lucas, okay.
Charles Dorfman: And then when I decided I was gonna direct it and not be in it, I did a page one rewrite, and I put a lot of myself in that.
PopHorror: That, that ties into the next question I was gonna ask about the film. You can see that it deals a ton with masculinity and concepts like the alpha-male, the beta-male, you know those stereotypes. Was there a character that really resonated with you most personally, like you connected deeply with?
Charles Dorfman: Well, both the guys probably. I wrote both parts, and I acted out all the parts. So, there’s a bit of me in all of them. I mean… probably Adam. When I did the paper rewrite, I definitely put a lot of myself in.
PopHorror: Yeah, I can see it in the film. Each of the characters has their own depths and whatnot, but Adam seems to be the focus of the film.
Charles Dorfman: Yeah, he’s definitely our protagonist. On the page, there’s a lot of pages where dramatizing passive characters is quite a challenge. And on the page, Adam doesn’t speak a lot for long periods of time. He doesn’t do much for long periods of time. So it’s really lucky to be able to get such a talented actor [Iwan Rheon, Game of Thrones] because you have to pay the part. He’s mesmerizing to watch, and he’s also such an experienced, intelligent actor at that. Just watch and listen and have a point of view of what’s going on, but without giving too much away. That’s also the other thing is. I was very lucky.
PopHorror: Yeah, that actually ties into another question I was gonna ask with Iwan. A lot of American audiences are going to be super familiar with him in Game of Thrones just being in hardcore villain mode. What led you to choosing him a more grounded protagonist?
Charles Dorfman: In truth, he chose me. He got a script, read it, and agreed to meet me. We had a chat about the film and about other stuff in general. I was so nervous that I’m not going to be able to tell you exactly what we talked about. And then he agreed to do it, so I’m not sure. I chose him, but I feel really lucky to have him.
PopHorror: Regardless of the circumstances, I think it turned out well. He’s got that very unique kind of simmering rage to the character that just builds throughout.
Charles Dorfman: I think that’s also in the ability of other people to wind him up, particularly Lucas [Tom Cullen] because he certainly winds him up. Those two, they’re both from Wales. I don’t think they’ve worked together before, but they have an understanding with which they were able to jump in and wind each other up and have that sort of pisstaking relationship. And Tom is brilliant at it! He definitely wowed at the part.
PopHorror: Oh, yeah, It was fantastic just watching that go, as the film went. I’m trying to keep it spoiler-free here but that build up of tension throughout… because of how much back and forth and how much shit he’s giving Adam.
Charles Dorfman: Yeah. The relation between him and the other captives, like Eve, played by Catalina [Sandino Moreno]… It was important that you know she’s an animal, and she’s in no way overbearing. It was important for the actor playing that part. She’s caring and nurturing but she’s a provider, and he’s just a bit lost.
PopHorror: And I thought that was a really good choice on your part. A lot of films that deal with masculinity and the different sides of masculinity. Sometimes it can lean into misogyny, and I didn’t really see that. She was a human being, and so was Lucas’ partner, Chloe.
Charles Dorfman: Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you for saying that.
PopHorror: Yeah. And on a lighter note, I do want to ask… the fox has a ton of appearances throughout the film. Would you like to explain kind of your thematic intent with that? I had some ideas but I would love to hear what yours were.
Charles Dorfman: There was a mixture of things. Initially, I don’t know where it came from, but then I was reading a lot of Joseph Campbell, and the fox appears in there as a sort of “call to action” quite often in different cultures. There’s also the idea of how you behave with a vulnerable sentient being when no one’s watching that tells you quite a lot about your character. So it serves a purpose in the sense that he knows the right thing to do and he doesn’t do it, and it comes back to haunt him.
PopHorror: Agreed, and then it keeps on reflecting his character throughout the film.
Charles Dorfman: Exactly. What happens with that fox is repeated. At other points in the film, towards the end, with other people. So, it also dips into the idea of blood, death, and nature and whether it’s humane or not. Is it mercy or not? Is it barbaric or not to kill something? When is it okay? So, having Adam talk about how legal or illegal it is to hunt fox, sort of fumbling over it during the dinner table, was a happy accident coming out around the Balkans. He has his character in Game of Thrones, he’s not so… (trails off)
PopHorror: Yeah, he’s [Ramsay Bolton, Rheon’s Game of Thrones character]. Not exactly as morally questioning.
Charles Dorfman: Those conversations each seem quite light-hearted, and for the interchange, was written in very specific way, so all the “Ums” and “Ahhs” and “Yeses” were really written, really choreographed, and rehearsed.
PopHorror: They got it. It seemed to flow naturally, and he [Rheon] got the awkwardness of it all. I mean, if you do want to hear my thoughts, I can tell you.
Charles Dorfman: Yes please!
PopHorror: Yeah, I did think what you were thinking, I’ve also read a bit of Campbell, and I thought it was the connection of the barrier between civilized and the wild, as well. And every time the fox appeared, something’s gonna happen to make a character make that choice.
Charles Dorfman: Yeah, absolutely. And they all are encroaching on the sacred in more ways than one, which is never good. And that’s where the title of Barbarians comes from. It’s a moot point that we’re civilized becoming barbarians and vice versa.
PopHorror: Yeah, and having the Gaelic origins and whatnot really helped sell that, because a lot of people tie Celtic societies with being a bridge between that and the modern idea of the Anglo Saxon culture.
Charles Dorfman: Absolutely.
PopHorror: All right. And final question. Do you have any fun stories or anything you’d like to share from production, just personal anecdotes or anything?
Charles Dorfman: Do I have any fun stories? The fox that we had had to come out to a song. He was a trained fox and he came out to “Hungry Eyes,” which was brilliant. Just listening to that sort of soft rock. That’s what it liked. It came out to “Hungry Eyes,” which I thought was a fantastic bonus.
PopHorror: Yeah, that’s a fantastic, fun way to bring the fox alert.
Charles Dorfman: There was a lot of fun. It was a serious thing. There were moments where I just thought, “Pinch me. What am I doing? How did I get here?” I felt incredibly lucky but also some of those moments were really surreal. We’d be traipsing through the forest looking for a good location with 50 people following and I’d be thinking, “How am I the person who’s choosing the forest that is appropriate?” But it was brilliant. That car was a beautiful car. We wanted Lucas to have a sports car. It was always in the script. But you’re trying as much as possible not to make him completely unlikable. Yeah, so having a vintage car made sense to me. But then, we wanted to shoot in the back of the car, and there’s not a lot of vintage cars with space in the back. So, this car was a solution, but it broke down a lot.
PopHorror: Oh no!
Charles Dorfman: That was not so funny then, but looking back on it now, it was.
PopHorror: Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate that, and the interview time, and I enjoyed the movie. Keep an eye on on our website, and we should have a review up soon.
Charles Dorfman: Thank you very much for watching!
If you are interested in reading more of our Fantastic Fest 2021 coverage, follow this link here!
